Legislature(2009 - 2010)CAPITOL 120
04/06/2009 08:00 AM House JUDICIARY
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB193 | |
| HB186 | |
| HB193 | |
| HB36 | |
| HB186 | |
| HB36 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 186 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 36 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 193 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 186 - AK FIREARMS EXEMPT FROM FED. REGULATION 8:06:00 AM CHAIR RAMRAS announced that the next order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 186, "An Act declaring that certain firearms and accessories are exempt from federal regulation." 8:06:30 AM REPRESENTATIVE LYNN moved to adopt the proposed committee substitute (CS) for HB 186, Version 26-LS0627\E, Luckhaupt, 4/3/09, as the working document. There being no objection, Version E was before the committee. 8:07:30 AM REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor, relayed that HB 186 was engendered by a concern that the rights granted by the Second Amendment be preserved and defended. Specifically, HB 186 provides that firearms and their accessories manufactured in and kept in Alaska are not subject to federal law or federal regulation. In response to a question, he suggested that firearm and accessory manufacturing in Alaska might become a growing industry should HB 186 become law. 8:10:13 AM DERECK MILLER, Staff, Representative Mike Kelly, Alaska State Legislature, on behalf of Representative Kelly, sponsor, explained that Section 1 of Version E outlines findings that the authority for the bill comes from the Second, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution. Section 2 of Version E adds a new proposed AS 44.99.500(a)-(d) that exempts from federal law and federal regulation - including registration - personal firearms, firearm accessories, and ammunition that is manufactured in Alaska and remains in Alaska. Furthermore, since such firearms, accessories, and ammunition wouldn't be leaving the state, the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution would not apply either. Under proposed AS 44.99.500(c), firearms manufactured in Alaska shall have the words "Made in Alaska" clearly stamped on a central metallic part, such as the receiver or frame. Proposed AS 44.99.500(d) contains definitions of the terms, "firearm accessory", "generic and insignificant parts", and "manufactured". Section 3 adds an applicability section to uncodified law stating that AS 44.99.500 would apply to firearms, firearm accessories, and ammunition manufactured in Alaska after October 1, 2009. MR. MILLER mentioned that the Montana legislature recently passed a similar law, and that the Tennessee legislature is also considering such a law. He noted that due to a separation-of- powers issue, Version E no longer contains language requiring the attorney general to defend citizens being prosecuted by the federal government; that provision had caused the Department of Law (DOL) concern. REPRESENTATIVE HOLMES noted that no state has had this language on the books long enough for any potential constitutional problems to be made known. She said she is concerned that passage of the bill could be setting some citizens up for problems with the federal government - opening them up to significant civil and criminal liabilities. REPRESENTATIVE KELLY expressed a preference for reinserting the aforementioned DOL mandate back into the bill, surmising that such language would address Representative Holmes's concern. He acknowledged, though, that removal of that language addressed the aforementioned separation-of-powers concern. He predicted that anyone considering starting a business manufacturing firearms, firearm accessories, or ammunition, would automatically consult with an attorney to ensure that he/she doesn't run into problems with the federal government. CHAIR RAMRAS mentioned that he's received word that the fiscal note from the DOL for Version E would still be indeterminate due to the bill's potential of engendering litigation. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO questioned whether passage of the bill could be interpreted to mean that Alaska acknowledges that the Second Amendment could be overturned. REPRESENTATIVE KELLY offered his belief that the bill is instead stipulating that the State has the right to regulate firearm manufacturing in Alaska. CHAIR RAMRAS expressed favor with the bill. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG turned attention to language on page 2, lines [11-15], and suggested that an amendment might be in order to make that provision stronger, perhaps by changing the language such that it no longer focuses on what was understood in 1959 when Alaska was admitted to the union. He then noted that the bill doesn't appear to address the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution and whether in this situation a federal law can still preempt a state law. MR. MILLER, in response to comments, agreed to research the issues raised further. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG noted that members' packets contain a copy of the proposed Tennessee law. 8:23:06 AM SCOTT HAMANN said he strongly supports HB 186, and offered his belief that Alaska should protect its citizens from abuse by the federal government. In conclusion, he urged the committee to pass HB 186. 8:24:06 AM STEVE CATALANO said he agrees with Mr. Hamann, adding that HB 186 speaks directly to his pursuit of happiness. Mr. Catalano opined that it's time for the State to start supporting its citizens in their endeavors to pursue happiness. CHAIR RAMRAS, after ascertaining that no one else wished to testify, closed public testimony on HB 186. The committee took an at-ease from 8:25 a.m. to 8:29 a.m. CHAIR RAMRAS relayed that HB 186 [Version E] would be set aside until later in the meeting. HB 186 - AK FIREARMS EXEMPT FROM FED. REGULATION 9:04:46 AM CHAIR RAMRAS announced that as its next order of business, the committee would return to the hearing on HOUSE BILL NO. 186, "An Act declaring that certain firearms and accessories are exempt from federal regulation." [Before the committee was the proposed committee substitute (CS) for HB 186, Version 26- LS0627\E, Luckhaupt, 4/3/09, which had been adopted as the work draft earlier in the meeting.] 9:05:07 AM ANNE CARPENETI, Assistant Attorney General, Legal Services Section, Criminal Division, Department of Law (DOL), said that the DOL doesn't have a position on HB 186 and has not had a chance to study it to the extent that it should be, but realizes that there may be issues with it. REPRESENTATIVE HOLMES, again noting that no state has had such a law on the books long enough for a legal challenge to arise, reiterated her concern that under the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution, a person complying with HB 186 would run afoul of federal law. MS. CARPENETI said those are also issues of concern to the DOL. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said he is concerned about other possible legal challenges being raised as well. For example, because there are federal regulations regarding firearm manufacturing specifications and the care with which such weapons must be made, passage of HB 186 could result in national gun manufactures filing civil suit on the grounds that Alaskan manufacturers, as competitors, have an unfair advantage because they don't have to comply with the federal regulations. He asked whether the DOL has considered civil litigation issues as well as criminal litigation issues. MS. CARPENETI said the DOL has not done so yet, but acknowledged that those issues should be considered as well. In response to questions, she surmised that a constitutional challenge of HB 186 could take more than a year to resolve. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked whether under HB 186, a national firearms manufacturer could come into Alaska and make firearms that it would otherwise be precluded from making due to federal regulations. MS. CARPENETI offered her belief that in a constitutional challenge, input from such a company would not be helpful to upholding this proposed law. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said he presumes that someone would first have to be prosecuted in federal court and then he/she could use the provisions of the bill as an affirmative defense. MS. CARPENETI concurred. In response to another question, she offered that as a practical matter, the person being prosecuted would bear the burden of proving that he/she manufactured the firearm in Alaska under Alaska law. 9:15:07 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO made a motion to adopt Conceptual Amendment 1, to delete the word "understood" from page 2, lines 2 and 12, and anywhere else it occurs, and replace it with the word "intended", though if a better word can be found by the drafter, to use it instead. CHAIR RAMRAS objected for the purpose of discussion. REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor, said he had no objection to Conceptual Amendment 1. CHAIR RAMRAS removed his objection, indicated that there were no further objections, and announced that Conceptual Amendment 1 was adopted. The committee took an at-ease from 9:16 a.m. to 9:17 a.m. 9:17:23 AM REPRESENTATIVE LYNN moved to report the proposed committee substitute (CS) for HB 186, Version 26-LS0627\E, Luckhaupt, 4/3/09, as amended, out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying indeterminate fiscal note. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG objected for the purpose of discussion. He said: We haven't really had complete vetting of the constitutional issues and legal opinions, and I see these being extremely significant and having far- reaching ramifications that could go well up to the U.S. Supreme Court. And this could serve as precedent for all kinds of states asking to be exempted from federal regulation on everything from firearms to mosquito spray and cosmetics and food and ... [drugs] and everything else. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG suggested that the committee needs further information on the constitutional issues raised by the bill. REPRESENTATIVE KELLY said he would like to see all 50 states seek exemption from federal regulations, predicted that the bill will be challenged, and acknowledged that as currently written, the bill would put Alaskan firearm manufacturers at risk. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO offered his belief that the bill sends a message about overreaching by the federal government. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG predicted that during the course of any forthcoming constitutional challenge, the court would find that the committee did not adequately vet the constitutional issues raised by the bill, and that the legislative record was insufficient to support passage of the bill. REPRESENTATIVE LYNN remarked that [a review of the committee discussion thus far] might make it more difficult for the legislation to withstand a constitutional challenge. 9:25:39 AM A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Coghill, Gatto, Lynn, and Ramras voted in favor of the motion to report the proposed CS for HB 186, Version 26-LS0627\E, Luckhaupt, 4/3/09, as amended, from committee. Representatives Gruenberg and Holmes voted against it. Therefore, CSHB 186(JUD) was reported from the House Judiciary Standing Committee by a vote of 4-2. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG indicated that his "no" vote was based on his concern regarding an insufficient vetting of the constitutional issues raised by the bill, not on the merits of the bill itself. REPRESENTATIVE HOLMES said "ditto." [CSHB 186(JUD) was reported from the House Judiciary Standing Committee.]
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| 01 HB186 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HJUD 4/6/2009 8:00:00 AM |
HB 186 |
| 02 CSHB186 version E.pdf |
HJUD 4/6/2009 8:00:00 AM |
HB 186 |
| HB36.pdf |
HFIN 3/15/2010 1:30:00 PM HFIN 3/16/2010 9:00:00 AM HJUD 4/6/2009 8:00:00 AM |
HB 36 |
| HB36 OOG FN.pdf |
HFIN 3/16/2010 9:00:00 AM HJUD 4/6/2009 8:00:00 AM |
HB 36 |
| 03 HB186 LAW FN.pdf |
HJUD 4/6/2009 8:00:00 AM |
HB 186 |
| 03 Sectional for CSHB186 version E.pdf |
HJUD 4/6/2009 8:00:00 AM |
HB 186 |
| 04 HB186 version R.pdf |
HJUD 4/6/2009 8:00:00 AM |
HB 186 |
| 05 HB186 Backup.pdf |
HJUD 4/6/2009 8:00:00 AM |
HB 186 |